I’m using a small part of your post to illustrate points on confidence, ‘natural’ game, inner game and also on how to approach women using situational openers (what you touched upon).
Comments below w/ quoted text:
i like your idea of counter intuitive, doing just what is oppisite…. wait for a non-verbal cue, such as a watch-look or a sigh, or distressed look on her face, [and then use that in the approach]
It totally agree, I first learnt about this style of opening when I partnered with a guy called Alex Coulson and his now ex- business partner Steven for ‘Natural Lifestyle Choices’. Both these guys started out as wings and we all went out to pick up women together for a few years before we started teaching. They did the same style of pickup but the only difference was they had a canned assumption about ‘why she was looking a certain way’. They would go up (and I think Alex still does), go up to girls and say “Have you been crying?”, the girl is like “No?” and then they just move into asking her a broad question “Can a cat be gay?” (The Game, Neil Strauss).
It would usually work and open the girls, gone were the days of being told “fuck off” but the girls still didn’t open EASILY, QUICKLY OR SIMPLY. Massive problem.
They only had ONE WAY they knew of to open. They said, they can’t change it to my way because they’re company is all about “natural game” and they open as “themselves”. (If you know my stuff you’ll know that inverted commas is always indicative of a forthcoming facetious comment…don’t worry, I save that heavy writing for other things). They were “themselves” that parroted the rigid techniques of the book The Game by Neil Strauss. To be fair Steve rarely did that himself even though he taught it, so I left that company after 4 workshops.
Because calling something ‘natural game’ just tricks people into thinking that it is the ‘natural you’. Approaching women at the DMV an watching for her non-verbal cues is an great way to open MORE naturally.
Because ‘naturally’ only happens when this stuff becomes automatic, and luckily for us that starts happening from first approach and often comes to fruition after the 5th. It was ‘natural” for Alex Coulson because a repetition of using them when he first learnt how to pick up women from book “The Game”. Anything he ‘naturally’ did from then on was based on his general “feel” for things (his “inner game). In reality his “feel” for things just came from constant experience and the original techniques he learnt and then internalised.
What I’m trying to make clear to all you guys reading this is that this is a great way to open (watching for their cues and building what I call a (situational opener’),
I teach it in the ‘Courses’ section on this site. Do not, however, feel that you are becoming more natural and less of a robot.. If you deluded enough to think it’s all 100% you and you have ‘total inner confidence’ you would be wrong and deep down you know you’re wrong but you maintain the illusion.
Approaching a girl in a ‘natural’ way actually means in an ‘average’ way, the way of any untrained and unaware man. I don’t believe in training just to teach you how to pick up women because ultimately it makes bad pickup artists or even worse…just bad students.
Students who do a workshop or a course every year (but never really implement it when they’re solo). They come because they miss success and being psyched up to feel confident (for the next week).
One guy told me “it’s easier to pick up girls when he’s with guys who approach” but consistently asserted he only practiced “natural game”. Like…fuck man, if you were 100% natural and practiced what you preached you would just “accept that you can only pick up in the company of friends” and never pickup any other time because it isn’t “you”.
To all guys out there, even though Dave’s post was about Situational openers I am putting me foot down and addressing all your email questions. Most of you guys who say you’re confident end up admitting that you’re not 30mins into a workshop and that’s totally fine, in fact, it’s great. It’s why you’re there and it may be why you’re here (unless it truelly 100% JUST interests you, but you already have unshakable confidence).
Using a technique, remembering it and then using it automatically in the future because it worked is not ‘natural’, it’s ‘learned’.
The rest of Dave’s post:
..and then offer that ‘you know now that the DMV and the licence plate office have modernized, you don;t get many chances to wait these days’ of course, then i express concern that she is obvisouly breing inconvienced, and that leads to whatever is troubleing her. i know a lot of dating guys tell you not to elicit negative states from her, or listen to her troubles,
but what are friends for? and i also know a lot of seduction guys say don’t be friends, but please, isn’t this just a way to show her i am not dangerous, and this is a safe environment to meet someone with more concern for her than wether of not she’s wearing a thong? what do you think?
Covered this in above but let me reiterate it with a few additional comments based on my testing:
Yes you have provided a good example of a sleazy guy who may be staring at her thong in an obvious way and the guy who’s counter intuitive to that, the one who is friendly and concerned.
The problem is that ‘friendly and concerned guy’ actually gets laid once a month whist the
’sleazy’ guy just approaches more because he couldn’t give a fuck, but he gets laid a few times a week (usually with anything that has a pulse).
Being ‘counter intuitive’ is a broad concept., that’s why I only use techniques as examples to show a practical application of these initially vague concepts. People feel free to argue this but you can’t be there’s more too it than just “observing an doing the opposite. You need to do the opposite “within reason”, I don’t know about you but the ONLY time I find it ‘reasonable’ to approach a girl is when I can do it quickly and simply and being the ‘concerned friend’ is slow.
I’m not saying it doesn’t work, our tests have shown it to have a 30% close rate ( sex) . If you average at least an approach a day. with day with this you will often get laid once a month by a new girl each time. That’s 1 success every 30 days (1/30) and on average you’ll spend at least 7-10 hours on each girl pursuing her.
If you were to approach a girl the right way, using counter intuitiveness NOT to be the guy who aims to become her friend. It’s great to give concern where concern is due but I get the severe feeling that you lie awake and wonder why you get ‘drama queens’.
Guys who approach women like this (either by choice or ‘naturally’), which I think may be you, often think REALLY obvious signs from women are easy opening opportunities. You confirm this belief when yes, in fact these girls ARE easy to open, so you look for it. But, my tests over the past 5 years (when we first heard about situational openers), did not see these relationships end well. Most of our students and instructors said the girls were high maintenance and caused drama for nothing because they wern’t worldly, intelligent or considerate enough to consider things greater than their own ego and inherent neediness.
Because what you say WORKS Dave but all the guys reading this post NEED TO UNDERSTAND that if you reply with suggestions you will often see me unleash what I teach in my online course and bootcamps.
So, to summarize it all:
Looking for women’s cues and using them as a basis for you ‘ice breaker’ with a woman is great. Just be aware: that’s how insecure high maintenance women attract men. Still approach because if you’re a trained seduce in seconds student you will know:
1) Whether she’s a drama queen or not
2) How to approach her and use counter intuitiveness to ellicit the behaviour you want from her. In other words, you’ll make sure she behaves when she’s with you, even if she’s a nightmare with everyone else and always has been. But, at the end of day, she will still be a drama queen at heart and often it takes a change of job to snap them out of it (weird huh).
Our tests have shown that when they are surrounded by people who do not mess around with bullshit, they quickly and easily submit. But then when they meet you for a date they’re 40 minutes late, don’t appologise and saying YOU are ridiculous for being angry. Are you serious?
So to continue my summary: Approaching a woman with a situational opener is the best way to open women. If you want to learn how to do it in detail subscribe to my online bootcamp and mentoring program. All I can release is that “looking for their cues” (your words), is an essential part but the best way to approach a woman is by knowing what’s going to happen after you open.
That’s what makes you invincible. Thanks for your post, you’re a lucky boy as I always reward the return commenters. I appreciate that you come back to educate yourself and I love to rant because everything I write for the online courses is usually has NazI-like structure and discipline.
Thanks to those of you who are reading this too, feel free to comment, I do reply when I can.
T also commented
It’s the most common problem with guys, sportsmen refer to it as being in ‘the zone’. Instead of having mental blanks you instead have a choice of the 5 funny and attractive things to say in you head, instead of walking up to a girl and having her just brush you off as another loser guy you can walk up to woman and have her captivated instantly.
There’s many theories on why this is, Malcom Gladwell in the text Blink would suggest it is because people are making a snap judgment of you and you’re then acting in a way consistent with their initial (and perhaps accurate) stereotype of you. Daniel Goleman (the man who coined the terms EQ and Emotional Intelligence) says in his book Social Intelligence that there’s scientific evidence to show that emotions are contagious – something I agree with fully. Recently on my world tour I met an amazing Hungarian dating coach called Mex, I was discussing this point with him as I believe that ‘the zone’ is a real phenomenon but you can bring it on doing a variety of things that I’ve been using in my workshops for the past 3 out of the 6 years I’ve been doing them. Anyhow…he put it in a much more simplistic fashion than Goleman or Gladwell, he simply said “She feels what you feel”. In my first book Weapons of Mass Seduction I said “enthusiasm is contagious” and I still believe that. Speaking in a fast and excited manner with your eyes wide open and in a generally animated way (through your facial expressions and gesticulation) will 95% of the time get women excited too…and when they’re excited around you they will remember you and emotionally associate you with just that, excitement.
Goleman would support this notion and there’s a tonne of scientific evidence to strongly (and in my eyes unequivocally) assert that yes, emotions are contagious.
So what does this mean for you? Some nights ‘you’ve just got it’ other nights ‘you’re just not in the zone and things arent going your way’. Well, I’ll let you in a few little secrets – for the past two years I’ve been testing an tirelessly researching this exact phenomenon – those who have come before me like Goleman, Gladwell, Cialdini, Greene, etc etc are very good at telling us ‘why we are the way we are’ but rarely tell us how to use it to our advantage. That’s the problem with all these self-help texts, they leave you with an air of futility once you finish them.
You think ‘OK, I know that first impressions are important, I know emotions are contagious….but fuck, what if I consistently make bad first impressions and feel tired and depressed, am I doomed to be subjected to bad interactions as a consequence of ‘how I am’? What If I want to change how I am? Pick up artists, salesmen, motivational speakers, personal trainers – all these people aren’t just naturally successful, they’re trained and have tricks on how to influence others that they use with devestating effectiveness DAILY, so how do I do the same with women?’ I understand these sentiments but for you Mike and other men and WOMEN who share your sentiments my advice would be this:
1) The ‘zone’ or in your terms ‘it’s just the chemistry – you know we click. But some nights I just am not in the groove!’ comes from an effective awareness and management of your external validators. In lay terms this means that if we get good results early on (or are already in a good mood) those emotions and that mindset will pervade all aspects of our communication and make you attractive. Happy and confident people are attractive as instinctively it is a sign of health and shows you’re a worthy specimen to your potential mates. If you went and just got a kiss close with a girl within the first 20 minutes of your night it will VALIDATE you and the results that you’ve just seen and experienced with your own eyes will convince you and reaffirm to you that YOU ARE AWESOME. Your self doubt will dissipate because you have now confirmed to yourself ‘I can do it, I just did it!’ and emotionally this will resonate with you and show through in your facial expressions, your tonality and your body language.
2) Most of all, it is often the HESISTATION or the perceived hesistation by your target that can turn them off you quite quickly as you instantly demonstrate that you’re not confident as you may sound.
Your actions are not ‘congruent’ / do not match what you’re saying (or even how you’re saying it…assuming that ‘it’ is something confident-sounding e.g. ‘Oh you and I will never work, I need a woman that’s X’). People have an idea as to what a ‘confident’ person is like based of their previous experiences with people that they see and believe are truely confident. If you don’t match that then people won’t buy what you’re saying / doing and you ‘just won’t be in the groove’, if you match it partially e.g. what you’re saying is confident but your body language is saying otherwise – or perhaps you stutter or hesistate as you say it, then people will be a little wary of you – it’s the ‘There’s something not quite right but I’m not sure why’ feeling.
3) The best way to ‘get into the zone’ and have your confidence just seep out of your skin is something I call ‘transient confidence’, it’s confidence that comes and goes depending on the context. It doesn’t mean you’re not a happy confident guy all the time in all other aspects of your life (work, friends, familiy, etc) it’s just that in this particular social situation (e.g. walking into a high end night club by yourself) you feel LESS confident and your self doubt is a lot more prevalent than it usually is because you’re in an environment / context that feels foreign to you and us naturally as humans tend to avoid or be wary of things that are different or unfamiliar as they can pose hidden risks. In this instance, the doubt is often ‘I don’t know anyone and that girl / guy is hot but I’m unsure of how to impress them and I’m doubting whether I’m worthy enough of talking to them’ and the hidden risk is ‘What if I get rejected and that emotional pain will just confirm to me, in my mind, that all that self doubt is not just a mere suspicion but now it’s a fact – I actually wasn’t worthy of this person and now I truely feel – rather than just suspect – that I indeed am not worthy in fact – rather than just in my mind’.
4) A SMALL INSIGHT INTO MY SOLUTION:
You need to develop a thick skin very quickly to allay your fears and self doubts. This is why I make guys do their first three approaches with the AIM of getting rejected (often their biggest fear and emotional risk as they wish not to have real-world proof that they’re inferior). In reality this ‘inferiority fear’, ‘approach anxiety’ or ‘rejection anxiety’ (depending on what you wish to call it) is nearly ALWAYS cured by actually facing your fear and ‘getting rejected’ – but in reality, ‘rejection’ rarely ever happens. IF you’re trained correctly or know even the smallest amount of interpersonal / dating skills then the ‘rejections’ are never the whole ‘fuck off you’re a massive loser why the hell are you talking to me you freak?!’
(what we FEAR will happen) but in reality they’re just a conversationg going a little dead, a girl turning away to continue talking to her friends or someone very quickly saying ‘I have a boyfriend’. Soon you’ll realise it is not so bad and rejection is really nothing to be fearful of – once you’re exposed to it you develop a thick skin to it and become more and more emotionally complacent with it. Soon you do not care less about rejection and the hesitation I mentioned above in 2 is alleviated as you’ve already been rejected before and you really don’t care – most of all you’re still approaching and you will come to realise that the more you approach the more good validation / results you’ll get and this will give you ‘transient confidence’ (confidence in the moment – it’s a place where you’re totally not bothered about rejection – you don’t take it personally and you’re on a high because you’re consistently hunting our good validation / results and they’re consistently confirming to you that ‘you indeed are awesome’ and that’s what will get you into the zone – consistent good validation.
5) So, practically, how can you get yourself into the ‘zone’ so you just ‘click ‘ with girls and they can just SMELL you’re confident.
As mentioned above: become complacent with your fears by exposing yourself to them – remove the fear and you’ll remove the hesistation- remove the hesistation / apprehensions / self doubt and it will show through your physiogamy. Do three approaches in quick succession with the aim to get rejected (the funny thing is 90% of the time you usually don’t get rejected and this good-validation will give you the confidence to ‘be in the groove’ as you put it as the real-world results in front of your eyes have convinced you that your self-doubts are mostly just in your head.
6) Hunt out ‘good validation’ and ignore ‘bad validation’ – how you hunt out good validation is by consistently asking yourself ‘
How can I make this more fun for me right now?’ and really not taking anything too seriously at all – If you act in a non serious way this will be contagious and your targets will also then not take themselves too seriously, their defences will lower and all of a sudden your energies will bounce off eachother – you’ll be ‘vibing’ (as some people call it). It’s like a form of emotional momentum where your initial excitement / high energy gets her in the mode of also being excited and having high energy and the next thing you know you’re both just getting more and more excited and having more and more fun just because you’re in eachother’s presence. We all know people like this, some people who are always hyper and happy and you know that your dinner party (for example) is definitely going to be great because this person just changes the whole social dynamic.
Hope that helps, feel free to ask me any more questions and excuse the spelling / gramatical errors (quickly pelting this out in Athens airport before my laptop dies!)
It depends on the situation and the purpose. Direct is faster and more effective generally but some times it is not appropriate to open a woman using a ‘direct opener’ e.g. at work.
Sure thing feel free to sign up to my newsletter for updates. What would you be interested in reading more about as I can help you if you direct me a little more as to what you’re after.
Recent comments by T
Pick up artist videos – Simple Ways to Pick Up Girls, Fast
No I don’t think this is possible. I believe you are born gay and ‘converting a lesbian’ is like me saying a charming guy can convert you to being gay….which I’m sure you’d disagree with because you’re simply not gay. If they’re bi to begin with that’s still a different issue – having said that, many of my lesbian or gay friends have had heterosexual sex before they ‘came out of the closet’ but they hated it and usually forced themselves because of social convention.
Fixed So sorry for inconvenience
Thanks for the heads up – all should be perfect now
Video: T Gets a Woman’s Number in 1 Minute at a Mall
Hahaha – are you serious? Being gay is being gay – nothing in the world can change that if that’s how you naturally are.
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